Такой вопрос... Прекращение серийного выпуска ИС-3 в 1946м году было связано с реконверсией ЧКЗ, или было плановым? Просто встречается утверждение, что объект 701 пустили в серию вынужденно и под давлением военных, как раз чтобы закрыть дыру, образовавшуюся из-за снятия с производства ИС-3; при чем также где-то проскальзывал тезис, что дальнейший выпуск ИС-3 был физически невозможен(без объяснения причин).
История советского танкостроения 6
Сообщений 691 страница 720 из 906
Поделиться6922019-04-09 15:21:08
"Буксировщик" (буксир) -- то же самое, что тягач, только на воде
Четкого определения, что называется "тягач танковый", я не встречал. Подозреваю, что его просто не существует. Крюки и троса входят в комплектацию всех видов БТВТ. Но, они не делают танк, БМП и пр. тягачами. В моем понимании, тягач должен эвакуировать аварийные и поврежденные машины, без помощи экипажей этих машин. Т.е., за рычагами буксируемой машины может никого не быть (вполне допустимо в случае войны). Кроме того, тягач должен вытаскивать застрявшие машины (среднее застревание и выше) и иметь возможность взять "на себя" хотя бы часть того, что отделилось от танка (например - разорванную гусеницу). Ничего из этого, машины, которые я назвал "буксировщиками" (термин не официальный), делать не могут. Посему, опять же с моей точки зрения, называть такие машины тягачами - не совсем верно или корректно.
Поделиться6932019-04-09 17:36:59
Посему, опять же с моей точки зрения, называть такие машины тягачами - не совсем верно или корректно.
И.О. тягача и на полставки эвакуатор
P.S.
Ссылка
Отредактировано leonard61 (2019-04-09 17:57:29)
Поделиться6942019-04-09 19:16:40
Такой вопрос... Прекращение серийного выпуска ИС-3 в 1946м году было связано с реконверсией ЧКЗ, или было плановым? Просто встречается утверждение, что объект 701 пустили в серию вынужденно и под давлением военных, как раз чтобы закрыть дыру, образовавшуюся из-за снятия с производства ИС-3; при чем также где-то проскальзывал тезис, что дальнейший выпуск ИС-3 был физически невозможен(без объяснения причин).
Так ИС-3 сняли с производства в связи с тем, что устроили радостные визги на тему "а давайте поставим мега-дакку, она классная, зачем нам выпускать модернизированный ИС-2". Окей, прняли 701-й на вооружение, сняли в июле 1946 года с производства ИС-3, а потом ВНЕЗАПНО выяснилось, что желания и возможности не совпадают. Вплоть до нытья на тему "мы лист 160 мм делать не можем, позязя, мона 2 листа по 80?".
Поделиться6952019-04-09 21:18:10
Так ИС-3 сняли с производства в связи с тем, что устроили радостные визги на тему "а давайте поставим мега-дакку, она классная, зачем нам выпускать модернизированный ИС-2". Окей, прняли 701-й на вооружение, сняли в июле 1946 года с производства ИС-3, а потом ВНЕЗАПНО выяснилось, что желания и возможности не совпадают. Вплоть до нытья на тему "мы лист 160 мм делать не можем, позязя, мона 2 листа по 80?".
Картина прояснилась, спасибо. Вообще эта тема похоже достойна как минимум развернутой статьи, ИМХО, а то и книги.
Поделиться6962019-04-09 21:26:47
Так ИС-3 сняли с производства в связи с тем, что устроили радостные визги на тему "а давайте поставим мега-дакку, она классная, зачем нам выпускать модернизированный ИС-2".
Почему IС-3 ТТХ недостаточно хорош для советской армии?
Поделиться6972019-04-09 22:46:01
Почему IС-3 ТТХ недостаточно хорош для советской армии?
Потому что военные - те же дети, только игрушки большие. Им подавай танк с броней и пушкой легкого крейсера, и подвижностью БТ-7. Результат немного закономерен.
Поделиться6982019-04-11 01:07:26
Четкого определения, что называется "тягач танковый", я не встречал. Подозреваю, что его просто не существует.
Танковый тягач - машина, основное назначение которой заниматься буксировкой. Танк успешно может заниматься буксировкой, но это его третьестепенная возможность, он не для этого предназначен. Танковое шасси без башни, которое предназначено или используется в основном для того, чтобы буксировать другие машины, это тягач, независимо от того насколько он оборудован различным оборудованием.
Поделиться7002019-05-20 21:51:43
.
Отредактировано Rotor15 (2020-01-05 18:18:28)
Поделиться7012019-06-29 21:19:02
(не знаю, куда это постить ещё, пусть будет тут)
оттуда http://sturgeonshouse.ipbhost.com/topic … ent=157130
пара табличек на польском про производство 72ки в советское время - как я понял, про то, что делалось для себя, а что в/или для/ ЧССР, ГДР, ВНР, и СССР. Правда по мне оттенки серого там местами еле различимы.
Но ещё и есть пары цифр -
для первой схемы (про башню) первая это масса в килограммах, вторая это кмк куда более любопытная цена в тысячах рублей
для второй схемы (про корпус) сначала цена в тысячах рублей, а потом доля цены в цене всего танка
а всего получается (либо просто складывая, либо поделив сумму для корпуса на процент для корпуса) 600 тысяч рублей, куда больше известных УВЗшных цифр для любых 72ек. Ещё видно что электроника не слишком большую часть цены составляла - вместе стабилизатор, прицел, ночной прицел, ик прожектор всего за 57 тысяч.
причём, как там добавлено, это не советские рубли, а СЭВовские переводные рубли, привязанные к золоту, и, судя по польской вики, к доллару
Отредактировано skylancer-3441 (2019-06-29 21:27:21)
Поделиться7022019-06-29 21:40:38
https://vk.com/wall6238406_21843
молодцы!круто!
Поделиться7032019-07-04 08:29:53
Статья про Т-72 (и частично про то, что некоторые на западе предполагали ранней версией Т-72) из International Defense Review 1977-06
Details of the Soviet T-72 Battle Tank
Two new tactical weapons systems were shown in the recent November 7 parade in Moscow's Red Square. The first to pass the podium was the BRDM fitted with a raised quintuple mount for new missile launcher/containers resembling those of the Euromissile HOT. The second, and undoubtedly the most impressive, was the T-72 battle tank.
A though the IDR has not yet recieved photos of the parade as this article goes to press, we are publishing here a selection of T-72 pictures whch show considerably more than could be seen in Red Square. They prove conclusively that the tank has considerable differences from the vehicle previously deployed in East Germany, and show for the first time the ammunition for the 125 mm gun and the removable, spring-loaded skirt plates which were not fitted to vehicles in the parade.
The 4-view drawing overleaf and the poorer quality photos showing the earlier vehicles were recently released to us by the US Army Intelligence and Security Command (IN-SCOM), whilst the sharper photos reproduced here were taken by Jean Pierre Quittard, of the Gamma Agency, at a barracks of the Taman Guards Division 45 km West of Moscow, during a visit in October by French Defense Minister Yvon Bourges.
General characteristics of the new tank, provided to the French visitors by the Russians, are as follows: designation — T-72; weight — 41 t; engine power — 700 hp; max. speed — 100 km/h; unrefuelled range — 500 km; crew — 3 men of small size; main weapon — 125 mm gun; coaxial MG — 7.62 mm; cupola MG — 12.7 mm; main gun ammunition — 40 rounds (12 APFSDS, 6 HEAT and 22 HE). Skirt plates on the sides were said to provide protection against armour piercing projectiles, and the front-mounted shovel was described as enabling the tank to dig itself in in a few minutes.
Hull
Dimensions and layout of the hull appear very similar, if not identical, to those given on the 4-view drawing for the older vehicle (i.e. 6.4 m long, 3.375 m wide and 1.4 m high). The driver is centrally positioned at the top of the long sloping glacis, which is transversely ribbed and has a deep-v splash board. The gunner's hatch swivels open to the right, and his main vision is provided by a wide angle periscope about 20 cm in front of the hatch, protected when not in use by a cover (see lead photo).Beneath the glacis is a toothed shovel/dozer blade, presumably operated hydraulically by the driver. The underside of the blade has attachment points for KMT mine clearing gear, for use when the blade is raised in the normal stowed position. Fuel cells cover almost the whole length of the right-hand fender, and the rear half of the left fender. The front half of the left fender appears to carry tool boxes.
The outside of the fenders have rubber mud flaps about 10 cm deep...
#Early model T-72 with turret reversed. Note smaller, narrower road wheels, smaller sprocket (12 teeth), greater number (6) of larger track support rollers, IR searchlight on left of main gun, and different bustle stowage than on new version. Greater number of stowage boxes around turret may also indicate less space in turret, perhaps due to size of early model's automatic loader.
#The T-72 photographed 45 km West of Moscow, during a visit by the French Defense Minister in October. Points of special interest are the sectioned ammunition, shovel/dozer blade, add-on skirt plates and new 12.7 mm MG on the commander's cupola. Soviets claim 700 hp engine gives the 41t vehicle a max. speed of 100 km/h.
#Crew members (below) are notably short, because of limited space, their heights ranging from 1 m 55 to 1 m 60 (5 ft to 5 ft 4 in).
======1031======
...running their whole length. Four light armour skirt plates can be fitted to quick attach points along the front half of each side. The plates are no more than 6 mm thick, are spring-loaded (presumably to allow the vehicle to brush past obstacles) and project at an angle of some 60°, when not chained back against the sides or swivelled upwards. They provide protection against HEAT rounds fired from the forward arc only, and probably have little effect against APFSDS, APDS and HESH.The engine and transmission are rear-mounted. Judging from the Red Square parade, the engine is remarkably smooth-running and smoke-free. The transmission drives the rear-mounted, 14-tooth sprocket which is totally new. It engages between the rubber-bushed single pins of a new wide track running on 6 new and much larger road wheels covering almost the...
#Command variant of early T-72, possibly T-72K, with large radio mast erected. Tank has to be stationary in this mode, since telescopic mast requires supporting stays pegged to ground. Also visible is small round hatch in rear centre of turret, possibly an ejection port for spent ammunition stub-cases. Two snorkels are carried on the turret bustle of this version (the one nearest the turret being for engine air, fitted at right rear corner of chassis), whilst new version has only the turret snorkel, indicating a possible engine change.
#Command variant of early model T-72. Note two radio antennas (one for rear link) and fittings under the bow for KMT mine clearance equipment. Driver's hatch is pivoted open to the right. Photo clearly shows small road wheels and double-pin track of early model, both now changed.
======1032======
...whole truck width, plus the front idler wheel and at least 3 (probably 4) small truck support rollers inboard of the track teeth. The new sprocket and track were also fitted on a T-62 exhibited to the French visitors, providing commonality with the T-72. Suspension details are not clear from the photos, but certain dampers, visible on older models, seen absent.The claimed max. speed of 100 km/h seems very high, and expert observers estimate 60-70 km/h as being more realistic, given the weight of 41 t and engine power of 700 hp. They could be proved wrong, however.
The rear of the T-72 hull is fitted for two 200 litre spare fuel drums, and a log for extracting the tank from a bogged down condition. Two cables are also carried at front and rear.
Turret and armament
The 2-man turret is centrally mounted and well shaped, being of cast steel (there is no sign of any special or spaced armour on the vehicle at all). As in the earlier versions, the commander's contra-rotating cupola is on the right, with the gunner’s hatch on the left.The commander's cupola has a small, forward hinged hatch with 2 rear-facing vision blocks, a small IR searchlight with, below it, an IR/daylight sight, and 2 forward-facing periscopes. It also mounts the new, gas-operated 12.7 mm machine gun which has brackets for a belted ammunition box on the right and for a small overhead reflex sight with a box cover. There is no certainty that the MG (which bears many similarities to the 7.62 mm FN MAG) can be operated remotely whilst closed down, since elevation appears to be manually controlled from the mount. In our photos, the MG is positioned in front of the right hand forward-looking periscope, on the cupola, but in the Red Square parade it was rotated on its ring to behind the cupola.
The gunner's hatch is also forward-hinged. It has 2 forward-looking periscopes, a separate IR sight with its own small searchlight to the front left of the hatch, and further in front there is a box-like structure which may...
#Rear view of the new T-72. Rear turret bustle box has overhang to permit engine access covers to be raised. Very clearly shown are the new, larger sprocket and road wheels, and the new single-pin track. Note absence of visible suspension dampers above rear road wheels, in contrast to earlier models. Turret is extremely low and squat, requiring crewmen to be of small size.
#Rear view of T-62 shown to French visitors alongside T-72. Note fixed 115 mm ammunition and new design snorkel similar to T- 72's. Of greatest interest are the new sprocket, track and road wheels fitted to this vehicle. They appear identical to those of the new model T-72, greatly improving logistical support and cross-servicing. Black and white "patch" on fender is an NBC filter.
#Side view of new model T-72 (foreground) with T-62 behind. A French Brigadier General is seen on the T-72 turret roof. Note difference in gun barrel length between the two tanks, and different cupola machine guns (T-72 has the new 12.7 mm MG, and the T-62 the old DShK 12.7mm). T-72's left side skirt plates are all chained back against fender except smaller front plate.
======1033======
...possibly house the optics of a laser rangefinder. However, the latter is at the left end of what appears to be the base of the Soviets' first stereoscopic rangefinder, the right-hand optics for this being to the front right of the commander's cupola.Behind the gunner's hatch are a rear-looking masked light (probably showing the tank's number to vehicles behind) and a rear-looking indicator light. Two new-design bustle boxes are fitted on the rear of the turret, a new design snorkel is carried at rear left, and there are empty brackets on the right side for two 12.7 mm ammunition boxes. Only one radio antenna is fitted, indicating that the tank battalion uses a single frequency band for all internal communications.
To the front of the turret are the main gun, coaxial MG and main IR searchlight. The latter has been moved from the left side of the mantlet, on earlier models, to the right, outboard of the coaxial 7.62 mm weapon. Reason for the move may have been to prevent interference with the gunner's low-angle sight line, or because the searchlight's mechanical linkage is more easily accommodated on the right.
The Russians have now confirmed the calibre of the main gun as 125 mm, and this is marked on the ammunition (photo). The tube projects 4.5 m from the mantlet cover, which is 69 cm deep. A thin thermal tube jacket of light alloy (probably aluminium) is fitted, and the fume extractor is a little over half-way down the barrel. There is no sign of any rifling at the muzzle, indicating a smooth bore.
The 125 mm ammunition is of considerable interest, and is described in the captions to the close-up photos. Unlike that of the T-62 it is separated, and the absence of a fourth crewman tends to support previous reports that it is loaded automatically from a main magazine. This would have to be selective, since 3 ammunition types are carried. The cartridges are semi-combustible, with stub-cases.
#Front and rear close-ups of cut-away 125 mm separated ammunition displayed on T-72 glacis. Front view above left shows, from left to right, Armour-Piercing Fin Stabilized Discarding Sabot (APFSDS) projectile in secondary cartridge; APFSDS semi-combustible primary cartridge; a new finned High Explosive Anti-Tank (HEAT) projectile; the HEAT caitildge; a new finned High Explosive (HE) projectile; and the HE cartridge. Points of interest:
APFSDS - Finned penetrator is guided in barrel not by full sabot but by prefractured ring sabot at top of combustible secondary cartridge, Latter contains long, hollow tube of booster propellant tied round penetretor to give uniform acceleration up to muizzle velocity of over 1,600 m/sec. 40° bores in sabot ring allow some gas to escape forwards in tube to give rotation necessary for separation after muzzle exit. Separation in aided by air scoops round sabot front rim. Penetrator body measures some 595 mm long by about 48 mm diameter. This ratio of over 12:1 indicates use of tungsten carbide core material, gives good stability on impact, a wide margin for tensile strangth and effective penetration even at fairly high angles ol incidence.
HEAT - Hollow charge cone is very deep (about 192 mm), explosive charge behind is tapered and a resonator surrounds the tip of the cone. Nose fuze has an ogive to impiove ballistic characteristics and tapered tube behind it probably helps to concentrate penetrating jet. Base fins are forward folded in top of cartridge when loaded.
HE - Backward-folded base fins are contained in a stub case for loading on top of cartridge. Nose fuze appears to have variable time setting, enabling artillery-type ait burst.
#Soviet General Pavlovsky explains T-72 details to French Defense Minister, Yvon Bourges and military aides. Note gun lube jacket; gunner's night sight and searchlight on turret root (right); and chained back skirt plates. Tube projecting into picture upper right is handle for commander's 12.7 mm machine gun, and vehicle in background is BRDM with sextuple Sagger anti-tank missile launcht, raised.
#Rear light quarter view of T-72 with Yvon Bourgas behind. Note fuel cells on fender, armoured skirt plate mountings, turret bustle box and especially, the new 12.7 mm cupola machine gun. This has leaf iron sights, gas cylinder and regulator below banel, and feed tray high in the receiver. Ammunition box would be fitted on bracket to right of receiver. Mount appears to have 2 hydraulic elevating cylinders beneath gun, operated by hand crank on right. Double box on overhead bracket is thought to be a small reflex sight with cover open.
======1034======
и отдельно некоторые иллюстрации, сфотографированные отдельно:
а вот имеющиеся в статье фотографии и схема относящиеся к Т-64 есть в нормально отсканированных и доступных в сети нумерах журнала Armor - в 1977-01-02 и 1978-01-02
Отредактировано skylancer-3441 (2019-07-04 08:30:36)
Поделиться7042019-07-04 10:56:43
У Т-64А и Т-72 настолько большие визуальные отличия, что совершенно непонятно, не шевельнулась ли мысль, что это разные танки, а не модификации одной машины? Как минимум по опубликованным фото такие подозрения закрадываются, если представить, что я вдруг ничего не знаю ни про Т-64, ни про Т-72
Поделиться7052019-07-04 12:15:52
наверное, и тогда были девочки-дизайнеры
Поделиться7062019-07-04 22:15:16
У Т-64А и Т-72 настолько большие визуальные отличия, что совершенно непонятно, не шевельнулась ли мысль, что это разные танки
Кроме катков и гусениц чем это настолько сильно отличается от Т-64А?
А это?
т.к. понятие модфикации для конструкции Т-72 требовало-бы гораздо большего коэффициента конструкторской применяемости деталей и узлов от Т-64
Попробуйте поинтересоваться тем же самым применительно к Т-72 и Т-72Б.
Отредактировано armor.kiev.ua (2019-07-04 22:20:02)
Поделиться7072019-07-04 22:47:36
https://cloud.mail.ru/public/4K49/3zuCay86T
Вообще, некоторое количество западных статей о советских танках я собирал в одну папку (в основном из Armor, а из фото IDR и Wehrtechnik туда пока попала только одна, запощенная выше), там можно найти самые разные предположения
Отредактировано skylancer-3441 (2019-07-04 22:48:40)
Поделиться7082019-07-05 00:10:45
Интересно, а сколько, по Вашему, процентов деталей и узлов в конструкции Т-72 конкретно заимствовано от конструкции Т-64?
Вы меня иногда поражаете тупизной своих вопросов.
Попробуйте задать этот вопрос западным специалистам, рассматривавшим эти машины на фотках. Ещё, я сам так делаю и Вам рекомендую, попробуйте, если умеете, себя поставить на их место и смотреть на вопрос их глазами.
Т.к. в СССР требования ГОСТ исполнялись и контролировались на предприятиях службами нормоконтроля, то просто уверен, что коэффициенты конструктивной и технологической применяемости в Т-72Б были не менее 70% от предыдущей модификации Т-72А!
А вопрос задавался про Т-72 и Т-72Б
Тем не менее Т-72А и Т-72Б по шасси были несовместимы. А у Т-64А и Т-64Б шасси были унифицированы на 100%.
Интересно, а сколько, по Вашему, процентов деталей и узлов в конструкции Т-72 конкретно заимствовано от конструкции Т-64?
Я не подсчитывал специально. Но это многие сотни наименований.
Кстати, есть особо одаренные, доказывающие прямое наследование Т-72 от... Т-62. Да, несколько деталек от Т-62 в Т-72 тоже можно найти.
Отредактировано armor.kiev.ua (2019-07-05 00:38:29)
Поделиться7092019-07-05 10:54:16
Кроме катков и гусениц чем это настолько сильно отличается от Т-64А?
В той же статье есть фото и с кормы, и сверху. Как минимум можно ещё отметить различия в конструкции МТО, которые наводят на мысль, что и двигатели разные. Раз такие пироги, я бы на их месте задался бы вопросом, что из этих двух танков действительно Т-72
Поделиться7102019-07-05 20:46:22
А к примеру, хоть десяток перечислить можете?
Из тех, которые не подвергались изменениям и остались с обозначениями 432 и 434 по состоянию на 1980 г.:
БКП -- 72 наименования деталей и сборочных единиц
механизм распределения -- 40
бортовой редуктор -- 15
Только по трем механизмам имеем более 120 наименований деталей.
Даже в системах двигателя (!!!) присутствует немало деталей 432 и 434.
Да, Вы так и не ответили, как обстоят дела с коэффициентом конструкторской применяемости деталей и узлов Т-72 на Т-72Б?
Но для всех не особо тупых работников нормоконтроля разрабатывающих хоть что-то предприятий, в отличии от Вас, это был вполне обыденный штатный вопрос о степени новизны изделия и его обозначении!
Вы таки продолжаете меня удивлять упорным игнорированием контекста разговора. Западным специалистам, по фотографиям изучавшим наши машины и делавших на этом основании выводы, как-то было насрать на мнение работников нормоконтроля и их должностные обязанности.
Поделиться7112019-07-05 21:09:49
В той же статье есть фото и с кормы, и сверху. Как минимум можно ещё отметить различия в конструкции МТО, которые наводят на мысль, что и двигатели разные. Раз такие пироги, я бы на их месте задался бы вопросом, что из этих двух танков действительно Т-72
Американские специалисты идиотами не были, поэтому они на примере модификаций М48, М60 и Леопардов прекрасно знали насколько могут отличаться крыши МТО и башни модификаций одной и той же машины. На примере всего мирового танкостроения знали сколько разных двигателей может устанавливаться на одной машине. На примере немцев времен ВМВ знали насколько может отличаться ходовая часть разных модификаций одного танка.
Более того, на личном примере: я в школе очень хорошо знал наши и зарубежные танки. Но вот когда впервые увидел в газете фотку Т-64, то побежал к отцу с вопросом "что это за странная семьдесятдвойка с маленькими катками?!" именно потому, что визуально между Т-72 и Т-64А для неспециалиста разница минимальная и когда я впервые увидел изображение Т-64А, никак иначе как Т-72 я его не воспринял.
Поделиться7122019-07-05 22:59:16
в газете фотку Т-64, то побежал к отцу с вопросом "что это за странная семьдесятдвойка с маленькими катками?!"
Мне офицеры, показывая на фото Т-64, говорили, что это Т-80 (1985-87 гг). Это я потом понял, что это фото было Т-64
Поделиться7132019-07-14 19:32:07
Товарищи, подскажите, а есть что-то в доступе из исследований советской БТТ через призму эргономичности, допустим исследования влияния эргономики рабочих мест на автономность, обслуживаемость, боеготовность машин? Сравнения машин разных поколений? Такие исследования вообще проводились?
Вопрос навеян утверждением о значительной доле поломок/проблем, как раз по причине плохой эргономики, от общей массы тех проблем с БТТ.
Поделиться7142019-07-14 21:23:36
Товарищи, подскажите, а есть что-то в доступе из исследований советской БТТ через призму эргономичности
Теория и конструкция танка. — Т. 7. Эргономическое обеспечение разработки танков / Под ред. д.т.н., проф. П. П. Исакова. — М.: Машиностроение, 1986. — 191 с.
Поделиться7152019-07-24 18:34:13
Статья "От Т-34 к Т-80. Эволюция советских боевых танков плюс отчёт IDR о тест-драйве Т-62." из International Defense Review 1981-05
==1649==
The Evolution of Soviet Battle Tanks PLUS the IDR's T-62 test report
by D.H.C.JenkinsIn recent years, most Western nations have experienced great difficulty in developing and producing new battle tanks that are equal or better than those issuing from Soviet and Warsaw Pact factories. The philosophy has been, and still is, to produces new vehicle winch is a quantum improvement on the previous tank. This, however, is expensive both financially and in time. Western nations are increasingly turning to joint ventures in order to try and cut ultimate production costs but to date, these partnershps have all failed, resulting in further delays. Only one joint project is still alive, and the French and the Germans are attempting to design a tank for the 1990s, although the present indications are that this, too, may be doomed to failure. The result has been that individual countries are "going it alone" and producing ever more costly vehicles in sufficient quantities to provide anything approaching a balance to the vastly superior numbers of modern tanks deployed by the Soviets and their Warsaw Pact allies.
The Soviet Union has not yet subscribed to the "throw-away society" and as such has a different outlook. No old equipment is totally discarded. Effective and proven comportents in one design are generally retained in the succeeding generation of vehicles. Smplicity, effectiveness and numbers are the watchwords. Soviet tank design has, therefore, been evolutionary and could very well continue to be so even with the introduction of the T-80.
Development history
The trend started during World War 2, with the introduction of the T-34. This was a very basic vehicle capable, however, of fulfilling its role. It was cheap to produce, simple to operate, and light. Crew training was minimal and the Soviet Army had no difficulty in finding the number of crews required to man the flood of vehicles being turned out. In battle they were no match for the heavier and more advanced German tanks in a one-to-one fight, but the Germans rapidly found that when their tanks had been expended, the T-34s were still there in quantity. A modified T-34, the T-34/85, entered service in 1944 and although withdrawn from Soviet Army service in the 1960s, it was still in action with the Vietnamese Army in 1973. The successor to the T-34 went into production in 1944, too. This was the T-44, a modified T-34/85. The turret was very similar, the suspension had been changed from the Christie-type to torsion bar and the hull was consequently lower. Unsuccessful attempts were then made to retrofit the T-44 turret with the D-10 100mm gun. A solution was eventually found by fitting a redesigned turret with the D-10 gun, to a stretched T-44 hull to produce a new vehicle designated T-54.This tank was manufactured in very large numbers and six variants were produced before the introduction of the T-55, first seen in Moscow in November 1961. Subsequently a further three variants of the T-55 were produced. The only major change between the T-54 and the T-55 was the fitting of the uprated V-55 engine. All T-54s were then modified to T-55 standard, resulting in the Western designation of T-54/55 for all vehicles of this type. The tank was, however unpopular in many countries to which it was sold and in his book Modern Soviet Armor Steven Zaloga cites the case of Romania having had "such serious problems with its T-54s that it [has] approached several West German companies for bids to completely re-work the existing vehicles, adding new suspension, track, wheels, engine and other components."
▼ The author at the controls of a T-62A during the IDR test drive. The T-62A can be distinguished from the T-62 by the raised loader's cupola with the 12.7mm Dshk AA machine gun.
==1650==T-62
The same basic design was than used in Ihe production of the T-62, first seen in 1965. The major change was the up-gunnig of the tank from the 100mm D-10T to the 115mm smoothbore U-5T. Many T-55 components are evident in the T-62 and it is conceivable that this was the start of a new trend in tank production — that of putting development vehicles into limited production, producing a number of variants, ascertaining the optimum combination of systems and then fielding a new tank in which all systems have been thoroughly tested, frequently in combat, without incurring the almost crippling test and evaluation expenditure of Western nations.
In its recent T-62 test drive IDR found that the tank was indeed basic in both its design and construction. External components lacked any form of finish and were, for the most part, fiimsily made. This conforms with the Soviet design philosophy that external components are of secondary importance and will be early casualties in battle. Therefore no time, money and effort are wasted in producing a solid, finished product. The tank has, however, been designed to make the maximum use of ground. The turret is small and well rounded, providing maximum protection from glancing shots, and the hull, with its Christie suspension and no top rollers, is low and squat. This gives the tank a low silhouette and make it very hard to spot when concealed in a hull-down position. It also makes the crew very uncomfortable. Inside the turret, space is extremely limited. The gunner sits on the left, below the commander and has little room in which to work. Indeed the commander's and gunners stations combined are hardly bigger than the commander's station alone in most Western tanks The loader, on the right of the turret, does have more room, but unless he is left handed his task is extremely difficult.
The driver's station is on the left of the hull. His seat can be adjusted for driving head-out, the normal driving position, or closed down whenever the turret is in operation.
Normally the T-62 is started using compressed air with a minimum pressure of 50kg/cm2. For IDR's test, however, the tank had to be bump-started as there was insufficient pressure in the air cylinders. The driver checks that the systems are functioning and then starts the engine, having first ensured that the engine oil pressure is between 6 and 7kg/cm2. If an air start fails, an electric starter can be used.
In common with most tanks, first gear it an emergency gear. To begin driving, second is selected and the hand throttle is set at 550-600rpm. It is at this point that the Western tank driver is thankful for the invention of the automatic gearbox. The T-62 has a crash gearbox and the driver has to double-declutch in order to change gear. Changing from second to third presented little difficulty but when it came to changing up into fourth gear, IDR found that the gear lever had to be moved across the complete width of the gate and was extremely stiff. It is no doubt this feature that has prompted reports that T-62 drivers are issued with a sledge-hammmer with which to persuade the gear lever to move into a different position. One user told IDR that training a US Army T-62 driver usually entails replacing the clutch at least twice.
Steering is by means of two tillers. These have three positions. When they are fully forward normal power is transmitted to the drive sprocket. To turn, one or other of the tillers must be pulled up to the first position, i.e. until resistance is felt for the first time. If both tillers are in first position a reduction gear is engaged and the tank slows down. From this position, however, smaller radius turns can be made by pulling a tiller up still further, to the second position. The second position effectively brakes the tracks and care must be taken to ensure that one tiller is not pulled into the second position if the tank is in fourth or fifth gear, since the resultant turn could be too severe. (It is by no means certain that the tank would throw a track in these circumstances, as a correctly tensioned track, i.e. when it hangs 60-80mm above the first roadwheel, is guided throughout its length by centre guides riding over the top and bottom of each road-wheel.) IDR initially felt it strange to have to pull both tillers completely up to the first position before starting a turn by pulling one of them up to the second position. This also required greater acceleration to maintain speed, which in turn led to clouds of black exhaust smoke.
IDR was unable to test the efficacity of the hydro-pneumatic clutch in the T-62 as the compressed-air bottles were being recharged during the drive. This clutch is engaged after moving off by the driver moving a lever, mounted on the clutch pedal, with his foot. It appears that use of this clutch does not facilitate gear changing but it does reduce clutch wear.▼ An early photo of a T-64 with the characteristically small roadwheels and the IR projector on the left of the main gun. The driver's position is central in the hull. The open hatch is on the commander's station.
◄ One of theT-62As used by the US Army for training. A fuel pannier can be seen on the rear deck above the gap between the 4th and 5th roadwheels. The long tube on the rear of the turret is for stowing the snorkel and above this is the cartridge-case jettison hatch. An interesting point about the track pins is that they are not held in place at the outer edge of the links, leaving them free to move into the centre. This effect is countered by a raised piece of metal (the pin hammer), welded on to the hull forward of the drive sprocket, which knocks the pins back into position each time they pass over the sprocket.
► View, from the commander's seat, of the T-62 gunner's position with the telescope (right) and periscope (left) prepared for right-eye use. Key: 1 - IR power supply; 2 - Traverse handwheel; 3 - TPN1-41-11 infrared monocular periscope night sight; 4 - Gunner's duplex controls with coax and main gun firing switches on left and right handles respectively; 5 - TSh2B-41U primary telescope day sight; 6 - TNP-165 vision block.
►► The right-hand side of the T-62 driver's compartment. One of the steering tillers can be seen, just to the left of the gear lever and gate. From the left the top three positions in this gate give 3rd, reverse and 4th gears and the bottom row gives 2nd, 1st and 5th. The yellow bands give the US translations for the Russian switch designations. The box below the two vision blocks is the gyrocompass for use when driving submerged on a river crossing.
==1651==
Manoevrability is, thus, not one of the strong points of the T-62. Driving the vehicle is tiring and the ride is relatively uncomfortable.
The T-63 is lightly armoured and much of its passive protection is derived from its low silhouette. Active protection is, in some measure, provided by the engine smoke generator. This consumes 10 litres of fuel per minute and produces a smokescreen 250-400m long, lasting for up to 4 minutes, depending in wind strength. When the system is in operation, the driver must fully depress the accelerator to avoid starving the engine of fuel and should not be in higher than third gear.
In the event of operations in an NBC environment, a PAZ (NBC) pack protects the crew from radioactive dust by air filtration and slight over-pressure. It is tripped automatically by an RBZ-1 gamma-ray sensor.
The vehicle is powered by the V-55, V-12 diesel engine, with a maximum power output of 430kW at 2,000rpm, giving a maximum road speed of 80km/h. When driving cross-country, fuel consumption is between 300 and 330 litres per 100km. This is reduced to between 190 and 210 litres when giving on roads. Between 320 and 450km can be covered by the T-62 on its normal fuel tanks. This is increased to between 450 and 650km if the two jettisonable auxiliary fuel ranks, on the back of the vehicle, are used.
Maximum firing range of the U-5T 115mm gun, limited by the sighting range wthe TSh2B-41U gunner's telescope, is 4800m when firing the HE18 round, although it is unlikely that this extreme range would ever be used, except when the tank is in a static firing position (a Soviet speciality). Theoretical maximum effective anti-tank range, therefore, is 2,000m, although Middle East experience indicates that it is nearer to 1600m. Up to 40 rounds of 115mm fixed ammunition can be carried. These are stowed in open racks around the turret and hull and experience has shown that even a glancing blow from an incoming round can detonate them with catastrophic results. Stowage is also provided for up to 2,500 rounds of 7.62mm ammunition for the PKT coaxial machine gun. The T-62A also has a 12.7mm AA machine gun mounted on the loader's cupola with 500 rounds stowed externally.T-64 and T-72
Before the first T-62 was seen in public, it became known in the West that a new Sowet tank, designated M1970, had been desigrind. According to some sources this design was never produced, but a tank did go into production in the late 1960s. It was totally different from any previous Soviet tank, mounted a 125mm gun in a new turret and had a new running gear. The appearance of this tank led to great speculation by analysts in the West. A new dimension was added to the "threat" and the corridors of power from Bonn to Washington resounded with calls for the production of more powenful and better protected tanks to combat this new vehicle.
For several years Western defense agencies designated this tank the T-72 and it came as something of a shock when a second new vehicle was displayed in Moscow in 1977. At first the second new vehicle was thought to be a new model T-72, but closer analysis revealed significant differences between the two tanks This prompted a change in the Western designations and the earlier vehicle became known as the T-64.
The major differences between the T-64 and the T-72 are the engine and running gear. Photos show that the arrangement of exhaust grills on the rear of the vehicles differs, indicating that a different engine has been used. It it probable that the T-64 has a diesel engine producing a maximum power output of 560kW with a power to weight ratio (kW/t) of 15:1. According to some IDR sources, this engine is a departure from conventional types, being a flat, five-cylinder design, with horizontally-opposed pistons. In contrast, the T-72 has the V-64, an uprated version of the V-55 diesel in the T-62. This produces 580kW, at 3,000rpm and gives a power to weight ratio of 14:1.
The T-64 has six small, stamped, dual road wheels and torsion bar suspension. The double-pin steel track is supported on four top rollers. The T-72 running gear comprises six large, die-cast, dual road wheels, also with torsion bar suspension. The single, dry-pin steel track is supported on only three top rollers.
Modifications to the turret are minor and consist of the re-location of the infra-red searchlight from the left of the main armament, on the T-64, to the right for the T-72. The AA machine gun, too, is different. The T-72 has a new pintle-mounted 12.7mm gun mounted to the rear of the commander s cupola. This can only be operated from the head-out position, in the same way as on the T-62. On the T-64 the AA machine gun is also mounted on the commander's cupola but it appears as if it can be fired remotely.▼ A column of T-72s, with the new turrets, prior to embarking on a submerged river crossing The new design, full-length rubber skirting pfates have been removed, possibly to prevent them being torn off dunnn the crossing.
==1652==
Main and coaxial armament details are identical for both tanks. The main armament is a 125mm smoothbore gun, firing high-velocity APFSDS, HEAT and HE rounds. Muzzle velocity is in excess of 1,600m/s for the APFSDS and 905 and 850m/s for the HEAT and HE rounds respectively. A 7.62mm PKT machine gun, identical to that in the T-62, is mounted coaxially on the right of the main gun. Evidently the commander is responsible for serving the coaxial MG. An automatic loader serves the main armament, although the systems differ in their method of operation. In the T-72, charges and projectiles are stowed in single-round boxes with the charge above the projectile. Up to 40 of these boxes are mounted on a turntable on the inside of the turret. The different types of round do not have to be in specific positions since a computer keeps track of the position of each round. Once the commander has selected the type of round he wishes to fire, the computer indicates the position of the nearest one and the turntable rotates until the box is under the loading mechanism. With the barrel at a 4° elevation datum position, the box is then hauled up until the projectile touches the rear of the breech. A swing-arm rams it into the gun and the box is then lowered slightly, to allow the charge to be rammed in the same way.
The T-64 loading mechanism appears to be more complicated. The projectile is stowed vertically alongside the charge, which means that the projectile has to be turned before it can be rammed, with the charge following it.
Some analysts believe that the T-64 was produced as an interim measure between the T-62 and the T-72. Recent observations may lead to this supposition being contradicted and it is possible that the T-72 is the follow-on to the T-62 with the T-64 being a leap sideways from the evolutionary chain.
First acknowledged western sightings of the T-64 were at the beginning of the 1970s, though it may have been deployed even earlier. Since then, the T-64 has been issued to the Soviet Army in large numbers. In 1979 it was estimated that over 2,000 were in service with GSFG. Little is seen of these vehicles but many photos of the T-72 have been released. For some reason the T-72 is being shown off. This was demonstrated during the visit of the French Defense Minister to Moscow in 1977, where he and his party were shown the T-72, although they were not permitted to see inside it. The T-72 has also been exported to countries outside the Warsaw Pact — IDR sources say that the current purchase price of a T-72 is about $2 million. Pictures have also been released of the T-72 with a new turret showing that the back-up stadiametric rangefinder has been removed. This exposure is a typical Soviet behaviour and leads to the conclusion that another tank, possibly a much-improved version of the T-64, is to become the standard Soviet battle tank. An additional argument has been advanced which states that the original T-64 has experienced many operational problems and that this is being hidden from prying eyes. These problems have been cited as including: inaccuracy oj the powerful smooth-bore gun; a tendenci to shed its tracks; and above all, a disastrous reliability record for the engine, which is also► Early model T-72s on parade during the West 81 exercises. The light metal thermal jacket on the main armament is held in place by clips along the top edge. (The tank on the right has lost the end section of the thermal jacket.)
==1653==
Comparative data — T-62, T-64 and T-72
Type
T-62
T-64
T-72
Crew
4
3
3
Combat waight (t)
37.5
38
41
Length gun forwards (m)
9.33
9.10
9.20
Overall width (m)
3.30
3.40
3.60
Height to top at cupola (m)
2.40
2.30
2.30
Ground clearance (cm)
43
37
42
Length of track on ground (m)
4.23
4.10
4.25
Max. speed (km/h)
50
30-50
50
Max. cross country road range (km)
450
450
450
Fuel capeciry (litres)
960
1,000
1,000
Max gradient (°)
30
30
30
Max obstacle height (cm)
80
80
90
Max trench width (m)
2.80
2.70
2.70
Fording depth
with preparation (m)
5.5 (with snorkel)
5.5 (with snorkel)
5.5 (with snorkel)
without preparation (m)
1.4
1.4
1.3
Armament
Main armament, calibre (mm)
115 smoothbore
125 smoothbore
125 smoothbore
Gun designation
U-5T
Fume extractor
Yes
Yes
Yes
Thermal jacket
No
Yes
Yes
Depression/elevation (°)
-5/+18
-5/+18
-5/+18
Type of ammunition/muzzle veiocity (m/s)
HE-Frag FS/700;
HE-Frag FS/850;
HE-Frag FS/850;
HEAT-FS/900;
HEAT-FS/905;
HEAT-FS/905;
HVAPFSDS/1,615
HVAPFSDS/1,615
HVAPFSDS/1,615
Number of rounds carried
40
40
40
Automatic loader
No
Yes
Yes
Secondary armament/type
PKT/Coaxial
PKT/Coaxial
PKT/Coaxial
Calibre (mm)
7.62
7.62
7.62
Rate of fire (rounds/min)
650 cyclic,
650/250
650/250
250 practical
No. of rounds carried
2,000-3,000
3,000
3,000
AA armament/calibre (mm)
T62A only/12.7
12.7
12.7
Designation
DShK 38/46
Rate of fire (rounds/min)
600 cyclic,
600
600
80-100 practical
100 practical
200 practical
Mounted on commander's or loader's station
Loader
Commander
Commander
(remote)
(pintle mount)
No. of rounds carried
250
500
500
Engine smoke generator
Yes
Smoke grenade dischargers
No
Have been seen on GSFG tanks
No
Engine
Type
V-12
Horizontally opposed puston
V-12 supercharged
No. of cylinders
12
5
12
Fuel
Multi-fuel
Multi-fuel
Multi-fuel
Power to weight ratio (kW/t)
11.6:1
14.7:1
14.2:1
Max. power output (kW)
435
560
580
Cooling
liquid
liquid
liquid
Transmisslon
Synchronized
Synchromesh
Synchromesh
Type
constant mesh
hydraulic assisted
hydraulic assisted
No. of gears (fwd / reverse)
5/1
7/1
7/1
Stering system
Clutch and brake
Clutch and brake
Clutch and brake
Suspension and running gear
Type of suspension
Christie torsion bar
Torsion bar
Torsion bar
Road wheels
5 per side
6-dual
6-dual
Top rollers
Nil
4
3
Type of track
Single dry-pin,
Double-pin,
Single dry-pin,
steel
steel, live
steel
Width of track (cm)
58
58
58
Miscellaneous
NBC pack/type
PAZ system
Yes
Yes
Overpressure system
Slight
Crew heater
No
Escape hatch
Yes
==1654==
extremely smoky. Critics of the T-64 say that it was originally intended to become the Soviet MBT, but that its performance and reliability proved so poor that modernized T-55s, and subsequently T-72 export tanks, had to be used publicly in place of it. This view holds that T-64s in GSFG are merely training tanks, with their improved sucessors already stored secretly in forward locations.T-80
Well over ten years have passed since the introduction of the T-64 and a new Soviet tank is now known to exist. What is this tank? In the West it has been designated, for lack of surer indication, the T-80.
The T-80 has a high-pressure 125mm main gun and fires improved ammunition including HVAPFSDS with, possibly, a DU penetrator. It is said to weigh approximately 48.5t and may have hydropneumatic suspension. Experiments have been carried out in the Soviet Union with the use of gas turbine engines in tanks and two T-80 prototype series were produced, one with the gas turbine engine and one with an uprated diesel similar to that which powers the T-64. It is unlikely, however, that the turbine does power the T-80.
The most significant change is the addition of compound armour to the hull and turret, accounting for the increase in weight, and giving the vehicle the characteristic box-shape of modern NATO tanks. This armour could either be very similar to the British Chobham armour — samples of which have reached Russia from the FRG—or it could be a special, Soviet-designed laminate armour such as is used on the glacis plate of the T-64/72. The T-80 has been described as looking like a T-64 or-72 with add-on armour and this is likely to be the case, particularly since the appearance of the T-72 with a new turret.
A study of the evolutionary chart on p.1652 shows the likelihood of the hull coming from one vehicle, in this case the T-64, and a new turret (or a drastically modified T-72 turret) being mated to produce the new tank. The choice of hull could well be that of the T-64 with its innovative small roadwheels and engine. The T-72 engine will barely fit into its engine well and the possibility of further uprating it, to cope with the extra weight of the T-80, seems remote.The benefits of evolution
The main aim of Soviet tank designers appears to be to design and produce tanks as quickly and cheaply as possible without diminishing the size of the tank park. The evolutionary concept has enabled them to do so and has also brought other benefits. Firstly a measure of standardization is always present, and time and effort do not have to be wasted in totally converting crews from one type of vehicle to another. The Soviet Army retains many old tanks as training vehicles, thus not risking damage to its prime materiel while still maintaining crews proficient in the skills required to fight their tanks. The concept also provides the designers with the capability of thoroughly testing components and adopting or rejecting them for the successive generation of vehicles.
The last innovative Soviet tank design was the T-64, and this was possibly because the hull had not been prepared in time for the introduction of the T-62. There is thus no reason to believe that the T-80 is also totally innovative and there are already rumours of the T-80 follow-on being ready to go into production.
▲ Cut-away drawings of a Soviet T-72 MBT apparently used as training aids and showing the interior layout of the tank from both the side and the rear. Note the rotating ammunition stowage ring at the base of the turret, with the semicombustible charge clipped on the top of each projectile for automatic loading via the hoist (10). The drawings also indicate the thickness of armour on the tank. If they are accurate and if previously published dimensions (see IDR 8/1977, p 1032) are still correct, then the armour thickness on the glacis plate can be estimated at approximately 200mm measured at 90° and approximately 600mm measured horizontally. This glacis armour appears to be made up of three layers although the exact composition is not known. Armour thickness on the turret roof, measured at a point to the rear of 7 in the side view, is estimated at 60mm and the thickness of the bow plate, measured at a point forward of the front roadwheel, is approximately 80mm.
Key: 1 — FG-125 headlights; 2 — Steering tillers; 3 — NBC protection systems; 4 — Gear lever; 5 - Gun elevation drive; 6 — TPD-2 gunner's sight; 7 — TPN1-49-23 gunner's night sight; 8 — Spotlight for TKN-3 commander sight; 9 — AA machine gun; 10 — Ammunition hoist; 11 — Antenna base; 12 — Turret bin for deep-fording equipment and rations; 13 — Engine; 14 — Gearbox; 15 — Supplementary fuel tank; 16 — Projectile and charge containers; 17 — Rotary base; 18 — Gunner's seat; 19 — NBC decontamination; 20 — Driver's seat; 21 — Parking brake; 22 — External stowage; 23 — Manual turret traverse gear; 24 — Traverse indicator; 25 — Breech; 26 — 7.62mm coaxial machine gun; 27 — Commander's cupola episcopes; 28 — Skirt plates; 29 — Machine gun ammunition boxes; 30 — Radio; 31 — Hydraulic turret traverse drive.
▼ An artist's impression of the T-80 which has been described by those who have seen actual photos, as very nearly esact. Of particular note are the small road wheels, typical of the T-64, and the apparent lack of special armour skirting plates. Main armament is a new, 125mm, high pressure gun, developed from that of the T-64 and T-72, firing improved ammunition. The lack of an IR projector is indicative of the use of image-intensifying or thermal imaging night sights. A further point of interest is the provision of two banks of smoke grenade dischargers. Untill recently all Soviet battle tanks used an integral engine smoke generator to provide smoke protection. T-64s in GSFG have, however, beem seem with smoke grenade dischargers. It is possible, that these T-64s have a new engine which is not compatible with a smoke generator, and that this engine is also mounted in the T-80.
(всё кликабельно)
Отредактировано skylancer-3441 (2019-07-24 18:45:39)
Поделиться7162019-08-06 18:25:23
Статья ув. Пашолока о Т-34-85М
По итогам испытаний в серию Т-34-85М не пошёл, зато с августа 1944 года начался выпуск Т-34-85 с утолщённой башней. Таким образом, усиление защиты танка всё же произошло, хоть и частично.
До етого выпускался танк с башней толщиной 52мм, не знал-так что работы по усилению защиты даром не прошли.
Отредактировано Blitz. (2019-08-06 18:25:46)
Поделиться7172019-08-20 12:19:04
Т-34-85 с Д-5Т в Будапеште-56
С венгерского фотоархива
Поделиться7182019-08-21 03:15:47
Скорее с С-53 в маске ЗИС-С-53 - там ставили дополнительный груз для уравновешивания, так как ствол и бронировка у ЗИС-С-53 были несколько тяжелее.
Поищу фото, видел такие.
Врядли-видно амбразуру пулемета сверху маски, а не по середине как на машинах с С-53
НЯП танк с поздних выпусков, вроде етого
Поделиться7192019-08-21 21:47:53
Спасибо.
Поделиться7202020-02-09 11:31:38
СУ85, на ствол не обращать внимание, простая труба.
P.S. Кстати а где смотреть номер машины?